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Awareness: Organizations need to question whether something is a label or whether it is a real challenge within the organization. With this awareness, a business can clarify what part of the mental health spectrum they need to focus on. Do you need to focus on prevention to nurture your employees’ psychological wellbeing? Or do you need to focus on treatment because your people are already struggling?

As a part of my series about the “5 Ways That Businesses Can Help Promote The Mental Wellness Of Their Employees”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ingrid Messner.

Ingrid Messner is the author of Naturally Successful: How wise leaders manage their energy, influence others and create positive impact. Ingrid is a mentor, coach, facilitator and speaker who supports leaders and teams to optimise their positive impact, performance and wellbeing. Using a holistic and practical approach, Ingrid improves leadership effectiveness while connecting people with nature and ancient wisdom. Find out more at www.ingridmessner.com.

Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive into our discussion, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?

I’ve always been curious about people. My whole life has been about asking questions. In fact, you could say I’m an explorer, wanting to really understand what makes people tick, and how they are influenced by and connected with nature.

My interest in this started very early in school when I studied biology and geography. I’ve always been interested in the outdoors and wellbeing, and I am fascinated by people and how they are affected by their landscapes. Many years ago, I traveled to India and explored the whole continent. I realized that the people in the south were very different from the people in the north. This was partly driven by the landscape, the vegetation, and the food they consumed. I’ve now traveled to more than 50 countries and have always noticed how the landscape and culture are connected.

At first, I did not really get what this whole nature connection thing was all about. But over the years, through my travels and experience with different indigenous cultures, I came to understand this human-nature connection better.

I had my first experience with Australian indigenous people in 2000 when I did a tour in Kakadu National Park. Our indigenous guide explained how a tree could have multiple uses and multiple meanings for the community. I realized that a tree wasn’t just one tree, but an important connection point in a big web. I found this very interesting, and so, over the past 20-plus years, I have had countless meetings and conversations with different types of indigenous people in Australia and other countries. What I’ve learned from them is that there is an underlying thread that goes through everything. Different people give this thread different names but all agree that people need to be deeply aware of their environment, and people can only be well if their environment is well. Healthy people need a healthy planet. And it is the same in business.

In business, many people are no longer aware of the role of nature. They have become disconnected — at best they see it as a nice backdrop, a resource or a problem to solve (think of Climate Change). But even in an office, nature is so important. So, I try to bring this nature connection into my work with organizations wherever I can. For example, how do you set up your meeting space? How do you arrange where people sit? Do they sit in a circle or opposite each other? Energetically, this makes a huge difference in how the conversation will go and what the results will be.

Since completing my MBA after school, I have worked in and for many large organizations. I love that I can share with clients my corporate experience, the indigenous wisdom I’ve learned, my experience in nature through hiking and travel, and my mindfulness. All these aspects combine to create a positive shift in workplace culture, encouraging organizations and teams to explore different ways of thinking and doing.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?

I am always amazed by one reoccurring theme: people who work together often don’t know anything personal about each other. There is a real lack of curiosity and communication in so many workplaces, which affects the whole organization.

For example, one organization approached me to improve their team culture. They were achieving amazing results, but the workplace culture was toxic. There was no accountability, people had no sense of connection to their work, and people were leaving.

There was a total breakdown of communication. Some people had been working together for many years but didn’t know each other at all. In meetings, they hid behind their laptop screens, avoiding conversation. And when external people were dialed in, they weren’t even put on camera, so people had no real connection with who they were talking to.

The leader of this team asked me to create a workshop around accountability. But I knew that before we could talk about accountability, people had to get to know each other better. We had to put relationships before the task. So, I organized for the team to meet in a technology-free, relaxed environment. We sat in a circle — what you could call an indigenous way of having a meeting, where people faced each other and really had to listen to each other. I got people to ask each other some non-threatening questions, such as where did you grow up, where were you born, how many siblings do you have? These simple questions opened up some heartfelt conversations, and people discovered things about each other they never knew. Suddenly, they had shared experiences they could talk about, which shifted the whole atmosphere. Then, we were ready to talk about accountability.

I have seen the positive impact of this kind of conversation style time and time again. It sounds so simple, and it is, but a meeting circle is where the magic happens. When undisturbed conversations are encouraged, people truly listen to each other. They understand each other and are able to work together more positively and collaboratively with a shared purpose.

What advice would you suggest to your colleagues in your industry to thrive and avoid burnout?

What I have noticed recently is that people are not clear on their definition of success. Often, they’re not even aware of who or what drives them to achieve a certain thing. Is your definition of success one that’s been given to you by your boss or organization, or is it one you have brought in? And when you think about achieving success, do you think about the endpoint or the process of getting there?

When the focus is solely on the endpoint, people are likely to get frustrated and burn out during the process. But if they hold this endpoint more loosely and focus on the small steps to get there, they feel a much greater sense of achievement. They feel more in control, which I think is something many people lose during burnout.

Another important aspect of avoiding burnout is self-care. Many people still see self-care as being selfish. But it isn’t selfish — it is a service for others and the community. The better you are, the better you are for others. Because when you think about it, you can only give what you have got, so if you’re showing up as a tired, grumpy, frustrated and aggressive leader, you are not your best self, and your people will respond accordingly. So, you need to invest in yourself. Ask yourself: What is it that I need now? Then create a self-care action plan and commit to it.

Sometimes, however, you do need to be OK with short phases on the hamster wheel. This is when your self-care slides down the priority list a little. This is normal when dealing with day-to-day challenges. The important thing is that you can deal with that challenge, then bring your self-care back as a top priority.

What advice would you give to other leaders about how to create a fantastic work culture?

For me, I don’t see work culture as abstract. I see all the individual people in it. By thinking of work culture as a collection of people, you focus on how to build positive relationships. In all relationships people want to be appreciated, respected and acknowledged. So, firstly, that’s why I think appreciation is one of the core elements of a healthy work culture.

Secondly, there needs to be alignment. A team must have some sort of shared purpose, interest and vision. To nurture this alignment, team members need to understand how everyone ticks. What motivates them, what are their capabilities, what strengths do they have? What triggers them in a good or bad way? With this knowledge, the team can align much more effectively.

Finally, there must be aspiration. People want to have a purpose; they want their work to be meaningful. Aspiration gives us energy and the reason to be at work. It’s what makes it exciting! There is a story about a NASA janitor who was mopping a floor when US President John F. Kennedy was touring the facility. JFK asked the janitor what he did at NASA, and he replied, “I’m helping put a man on the moon.” So, you see, knowing the why behind our work and having something to aspire to is just so important to workplace culture.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life?

Yes, my favourite quote is from Ralph Waldo Emerson, which is, “The first wealth is health.”

This resonates with me on a personal and professional level. During the past four years, I have had to overcome two very different health issues — both of which required me to learn to walk again. Although not life-threatening, these challenges were life-changing and heavily influenced my personal life and my work.

In 2017, I badly broke my tibia plateau — the weight-bearing part of the knee. I shattered it during a bushwalk when my left foot got stuck in a root. I had a heavy backpack on, so my upper body was still moving forward as my foot became stuck. It felt as though the upper leg bone crashed into my lower bone; it was the weirdest experience I’ve ever had. I fell, but my knee was already broken before impact. I couldn’t walk, and although this happened in Sydney, I was on a remote bush track, so there was a huge rescue operation. I underwent surgery and had a metal plate and screws inserted. And that’s how I learned about the healthcare system.

My surgeon told me to see a physio as soon as possible after the surgery, but he didn’t offer me any more advice. Even the physio couldn’t tell me what to do to heal the bone — what nutrition I needed, how much sleep I required, and what kind of mental and social support I needed. Rehabilitation was grueling; there was so much pain involved. I couldn’t work for several weeks, but luckily, I was financially stable enough to cope with that. It was 11 months before I could bushwalk again, which meant I lost part of my connection with my community.

About two months after the accident, I woke in the middle of the night and thought, there needs to be a systemic approach to rehabilitation, where someone tells you everything you need to recover well: sleep, nutrition, supplements, physical therapy, finances, insurance, mental health support, and so on. I realized this is exactly what is needed in business, too. Teams and organizations need all these elements to come together for any type of successful performance. You can’t always get these elements right, but at least you can have the awareness.

Once I had recovered from my injury, I suffered a viral infection of my vestibular system. This is what gives you your sense of balance and spatial orientation so you can coordinate movement. The virus impacted my vestibular nerve, which takes messages to the brain, but it took about 10 weeks to be properly diagnosed. It was an emotional, life-changing roller coaster for me. I could not work at all because I had no energy. I couldn’t sit upright, and any sensory stimulus was impossible to deal with, like going to the supermarket or a restaurant. Once the neurologist told me it was an infection of the vestibular nerve, he said I could wait and hope everything returned to normal, which could take a long time. Or I could retrain my brain to get my sense of balance back. Luckily, the brain can do that — it’s called neuroplasticity, where the brain’s neural networks can change. In my case, my brain had to learn to ignore whatever my ear told it in terms of where I was in space. This required a lot of effort. Every day, I had to do specific exercises, and most of them were not pleasant. I do these exercises now. It requires a lot of energy and can be very frustrating.

Through these experiences, I realized that without physical health, you cannot create any wealth. Health is the most important thing. If your body isn’t functioning effectively, everything else becomes extremely challenging.

These learning have made me even more empathetic. My patience, resourcefulness, resilience and acceptance have increased exponentially. And that comes out in all the work I do. My systemic way of thinking and working is partly the result of being so frustrated with the healthcare system, which treats the person as many separate body parts rather than a whole.

OK, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. As you know, the collective mental health of our country is facing extreme pressure. In recent years many companies have begun offering mental health programs for their employees. For the sake of inspiring others, we would love to hear about five steps or initiatives that companies have taken to help improve or optimise their employee’s mental wellness. Can you please share a story or example for each?

Before you even think about steps or initiatives, I recommend is for organization to ask: What is our definition of mental health? And how is this definition relevant to you?

Mental health is a spectrum. It can go from what we consider quite “normal” to being seriously ill. I think we can be too quick to label something as a “mental health issue” when, often, it is someone dealing with a normal day-to-day challenge.

To illustrate, I have come across leaders who thought it was perfectly normal to schedule online meetings at 2am and for employees to only sleep for two hours a night. If someone is struggling to work this way (and most people would!), is it a mental health issue? Or is it someone dealing with ridiculous expectations? Our bodies and brains have evolved over thousands of years, while social media and video conferencing have evolved over just a few years. We were not able to adapt to this way of working so quickly. So, instead of focusing on labels such as “mental illness”, I think we need to ask, how can we create a system of working that is more supportive of the human condition? This is why awareness is so important.

Step 1 — Awareness:

Organizations need to question whether something is a label or whether it is a real challenge within the organization. With this awareness, a business can clarify what part of the mental health spectrum they need to focus on. Do you need to focus on prevention to nurture your employees’ psychological wellbeing? Or do you need to focus on treatment because your people are already struggling?

Step 2 — Acceptance:

Once you are aware of the reality of your employees’ mental wellness, you need to accept it. Understand what triggers and stressors should be avoided. Unreasonable meeting times, screen fatigue, and late hours are common triggers that can be avoided or reduced.

Step 3 — Alignment:

To make your mental health efforts sustainable, align them with your day-to-day practices. For example, add mental health check-ins to all meeting agendas, and include tips in staff newsletters for reducing stress.

Step 4 — Action:

Then, create an action plan. What initiatives can you implement to promote mental health and minimize stressors? There are many initiatives to choose from, but the best one will depend on what aspect of the mental health spectrum you’re focusing on. I have found that Mental Health First Aid Certificates provide effective solutions for prevention and early intervention in many workplaces. If you have an Employee Assistance Program, ensure it is equipped to deal with mental health issues. This might involve 24/7 access to an on-call counselor and drug and alcohol assistance programs.

Step 5 — Adaptation:

As with all initiatives, your mental health action plan will not be perfect straight away. You will need to adapt it. And what works at one time may not work at another, so you must constantly tweak it, gain feedback, and learn.

These ideas are wonderful, but sadly they are not yet commonplace. What strategies would you suggest to raise awareness about the importance of supporting the mental wellness of employees?

I think it is crucial for organizations to create business cases for good mental health. We need to create awareness of the impact that poor mental health can have on business operations and results. Mental health challenges often result in the loss of opportunities, which can hit a business’s bottom line.

We also need to end the stigmatization of mental health challenges. Employees often do not seek help when they know it is needed because of the negative stereotypes associated with mental illness. Some worry about losing their employer’s respect if they report a mental health issue, or they may be concerned about retaliation or termination. And some do not want to deal with it for fear that taking time off work will only increase their stress when they return.

Part of this problem is our tendency to label every little challenge a mental health problem. As I mentioned before, people are often struggling with unreasonable workplace expectations or everyday work challenges rather than a mental health issue. Organizations need to recognize this and help foster people’s resilience by building relationships and truly listening to and supporting their people.

From your experience or research, what are different steps that each of us as individuals, as a community and as a society, can take to effectively offer support to those around us who are feeling stressed, depressed, anxious and having other mental health issues? Can you explain?

As individuals, it’s important to be curious, open-minded and have those personal conversations. Initiatives like “RU OK? Day” inspire people to have more open discussions and be there for others.

As a community, we need safe spaces where people can share their challenges. We also need to create more easily accessible not-for-profit services, like Beyond Blue and men’s health tables.

In organizations, we need to give people the space to debrief their negative experiences. Businesses need to accept people’s mental and physical differences and be aware that some people are dealing with invisible challenges. For example, when I was dealing with my virus, I often had people comment that I looked well, fit and healthy. But on the inside, I felt terrible. Recently, I met a lady with multiple sclerosis. She looked so well on the outside, but she told me she was struggling mentally because of the issues she had to deal with all the time. That’s something we don’t see. So, on a societal and organizational level, if we can become aware of people’s invisible challenges, I think that will go a long way towards supporting people’s mental health.

Habits can play a huge role in mental wellness. What are the best strategies you would suggest to develop good healthy habits for optimal mental wellness that can replace any poor habits?

I suggest you start with something small, commit to it and track it. It’s helpful to be aware of your priorities. So, if your main issue is not getting enough sleep, work on that first, then focus on other areas where habits need improving — such as exercise and diet.

Last year, I completed a course at the Neuroscience Academy, run by Dr Sarah McKay. She recommends these habits for brain health and wellbeing, in order of importance: enough quality sleep, regular physical exercise, eating nourishing food, creating moments or places of calm (such as meditation), maintaining social connections and healthy relationships, taking on challenges to stay mentally active, and finding purpose and doing meaningful work.

A great book to help you create better wellness habits is Atomic Habits by James Clear. This book shows you how tiny changes in behaviour can create remarkable results.

Do you use any meditation, breathing or mind-calming practices that promote your mental wellbeing? We’d love to hear about all of them. How have they impacted your own life?

Yes, I do all three practices regularly and have done so for many years. I love to spend time in nature, go for walks, meditate, exercise at the gym, spend time with friends and family, do deep breathing exercises, have lunchtime naps, and I even do a digital detox from time to time. Each week, I try to do as many of these practices as possible, and I often combine them — such as walking with friends. If I am short on time, I like to use the Calm app, which has 10-minute guided meditations.

These practices help me a lot, especially being out in nature. The longer you are out in nature, you notice more colour and sounds. Your breathing changes, your heart rate changes, and your brain gets calmer. It really does help with your mental and physical wellbeing.

Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story?

Yes, Lost Connections by Johann Hari. I had a few clients and friends who were dealing with depression, and I struggled to understand it. I couldn’t get a handle on when depression was actually depression and when someone was just feeling sad. Then this book came along and covered the real causes of depression and the unexpected solutions.

One of the chapters was about people’s lost connection with nature. This was something I’d been thinking about for many years. We get so caught up in our work and thinking that nature becomes like a screen saver or backdrop when we’re outside. We’re not really in nature — at least, our body is there, but our mind is not. In this chapter, the author describes what happened to him when he went for a walk with a psychologist. Before this, he had been struggling with depression, taking heavy medication with lots of side effects. But through this mindful walk in nature, he started to build his nature connection, and his depression eased. This book described so many of the things I had been observing in my own life and work. It reaffirmed my whole focus on nature connection and how beneficial it is for individuals and businesses.

You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)

My movement would be “healthy planet, healthy people”. We need to take care of our environment and recognize the landscapes that support us and landscapes that don’t support us — in the natural world and our organizations. This goes back to the nature connection, and it embraces another important idea called biophilic design.

Biophilic design is the concept of bringing nature into our built environments. It’s about integrating certain aspects of nature into the design of a building or an office. I don’t just mean placing pot plants around but integrating the shapes, forms, colours and materials of nature. All these things have an impact on our body and mind. In many cases, it’s unconscious, but it does make a difference to our wellbeing and productivity and speaks to the notion of “healthy planet, healthy people”.

What is the best way our readers can further follow your work online?

You can check out my website, www.ingridmessner.com, which gives you an overview of my services as a mentor, coach, facilitator, speaker and trainer. You can also sign up to my newsletter there. To find out more about my book, Naturally Successful, visit www.ingridmessner.com/books.

And if you’d like to have a chat about how you and your team can become more effective leaders, increase your influence and have a positive impact, feel free to reach out to me directly at hello@ingridmessner.com or via LinkedIn at www.linkedin.com/in/ingridmessner. I look forward to connecting with you!

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